Yu Qiao Wenda: Dialogue between a Fisherman and Woodcutter
 T of C 
Home 		My
Work		 Hand-
books		 Qin as
Object		 Qin in
Art		 Poetry
/ Song		 Hear,
Watch		 Play
Qin		 Analysis History Ideo-
logy		 Miscel-
lanea		 More
Info		 Personal email me search me
Taiyin Xupu  ToC  /  Handbook list   Sun Yü-ch'in   Sample dialogues: 1   2;   3   As lyrics: 1   2   錄音、五線譜 Listen with transcriptions   / 首頁
Dialogue between a Fisherman and Woodcutter
Standard tuning, shang mode ( 1 2 4 5 6 1 2 ) 2		 漁樵問答 1
Yu Qiao Wenda  
  A dialogue 3 (more images)                
"Dialogue between a Fisherman and Woodcutter" has long been a popular qin melody, very actively played today and surviving in at least 40 handbooks from 1559 (Taiyin Xupu) to 1922 (see tracing chart below.4) From this one can see that although all available versions seem melodically related, the Yu Qiao Wenda played today is considerably changed and expanded beyond the early versions. That the present page is quite long is due to an as yet incomplete effort to understand these changes as well as the connections between the sung versions (the first of which is the third version overall, dating from 15855) and the purely instrumental ones. In the end my conclusion is that all the information gathered here helps my appreciation of the music, but the musical structure is very much like that of other Ming dynasty qin melodies, based on setting up structures such as couplets then using them in a way that makes the music move (see Guqin Analysis.)

Although 1559 is a relatively late date, the present melody was quickly included in many late Ming dynasty handbooks, the number and variety of versions which occurred around then suggesting it might have existed for some time before it was written down.6 Further on this, some of the commentaries in early handbooks state that it is quite an old melody; one of the handbooks, Yuwu Qinpu (1589), even seems to connect it with the famous but lost 13th century compilation Zixiadong Qinpu.7 However, as yet it has not been possible to verify such claims.

Throughout history, Chinese have clearly included 漁人 yuren ("fisherman") and 樵人 qiaoren ("woodcutter" but also "fuel gatherer", "woodman", etc.) as work occupations.8 However, they in particular have also been commonly idealized as people who can live in nature.9 And perhaps because fishing is more easily seen as a leisurely activity, "fishermen" have come to represent a more Daoist attitude to life while the "woodcutters" may represent Confucian attitudes.10 This may be seen in some of the literary essays and paintings depicting fishermen and woodcutters in conversation/dialogue, but both still seem more likely to bond over their love for nature than to argue about following Confucian principles. This then has an effect on interpreting the melodies: should the music itself become and expression of agreement or disagreement?11

The theme, further mentioned below, of fishermen and woodcutters being friends who when they get together discuss the meaning of life, can be found in Chinese writings as early as the Tang dynasty and in painting at least from the Song dynasty.12 As for fishermen and woodcutters individually, the qin melody title Song of the Woodcutter can be found in melody lists said to date from the Song dynasty (example), and versions of Song of the Fisherman have been attributed to Song dynasty players. Since there are suggestions that the melody Dialogue Between a Fisherman and Woodcutter has a similar age, its relatively late appearance in tablature form is somewhat puzzling.

Chinese traditional writing in general, as well as commentaries on versions of this qin melody, often convey the idea that, whereas most people talk about worldly matters that in the end mean little, the dialogue between the fisherman and woodcutter gets right to the essence. The Chinese system put a great emphasis on education. At the same time there was the Daoist idea that one could have great understanding through living in nature, without formal education. By convention, such understanding was often ascribed to fishermen and woodcutters. However, as can be seen here (for example, in the 1585 preface with its discussion of "making friends with the fish and shrimp"), the literati are not actually referring to real working people but to themselves escaping worldly cares.

At least 15 surviving versions of this melody have lyrics, including most of the versions between 1670 and 1864. The preface to the earliest of those with lyrics, dated 1585, says that the melody was quite old, but that there were no lyrics attached to it; on the other hand, there were appropriate lyrics (or indications there had been lyrics), but none of these was accompanied by tablature. The preface goes on to say the author applied lyrics to the melody. Unfortunately there is no suggestion one way or the other as to whether he wrote the lyrics himself, whether he took or adapted them from an earlier but now lost version of this melody, whether they once belonged to an unrelated melody on the same theme, or whether they have no earlier musical connection at all.

Until the 18th surviving published version, Qinyuan Xinchuan Quanbian (1670), almost all instrumental versions are in six sections while the ones with lyrics have 8 to 12 sections (most commonly 9). Since 1670 almost all versions, whether with lyrics or not, have had 8 or more sections, often 9 or 10 sections. However, the 1670 handbook tended to be rather conservative, copying old tablature (see in particuar the comment on this under Shen Qi Mi Pu); and most of the ensuing tablature until the mid 19th century seems either to have had lyrics or been closely connected to versions with lyrics. A comparison of the surviving editions until 1864 suggests that later ones omit or shorten some passages, extend or add others. However, the greatest expansion, beginning in the mid-19th century, added new material mostly to the last three sections. The earliest substantial additions are extended passages in the upper registers (above the 7th position) in sections added on at the end of the earlier versions.14 By the mid-19th century, also, there seems to have been a change in the modality: with the original tonal center being do (1) on the open first string, there is an increase in the occurrence of fa (4), open third string. This perhaps suggests that the open-string tuning should be considered as 5 6 1 2 3 5 6 rather than 1 2 4 5 6 1 2, in which case the tonal center has changed from do to sol.15

The pairing of fishermen and woodcutters is a theme which has remained popular in Chinese writing right up to the modern period. However, although it has been a common motif in Chinese poetry since at least the Tang dynasty,16 the earliest known literary occurrence of this title is perhaps for an essay attributed to the philosopher Shao Yong (1011 - 1077).17 Around the same time the famous poet Su Shi (1037-1101) also wrote on this theme.18

In popular literature the fisherman-woodcutter dialogues appear in at least one opera.19 And the popular novel Xi You Ji (Journey to the West), as attributed to Wu Cheng'en (1500 - 1582), contains such a dialogue in Chapter 10.20

Fishermen and woodcutters, separately and together, have long been a theme in the traditional paintings not just of China but also in Korea and Japan.21

Xu Jian discusses this melody in the chapter on Ming melodies in his Outline History of the Qin. The example he uses, though, seems to be late Qing dynasty, with passages not occuring in the Ming dynasty versions.22

Beginning with 1634 Yu Qiao Wenda is sometimes (also) called Jinmen Dailou ("At the Golden Gates awaiting the drip", i.e., waiting for the water clock to indicate time to begin work). The significance of this title may depend on how you interpret the mood of the people standing around waiting to begin work.23

 
Original Preface (1559)24
Compare the preface in 1589 and also see the preface in the prelude, Kaigu Yin. Here in 1559 the preface is:

The Old Man of Apricot Farm says, Someone in the Tang dynasty said,

"Han palace affairs are nothing compared to flowing streams;
      Wei mountain streams have just half run their course."

Throughout history success and failure can occur as easily as turning the hand over, (but) green mountains and clear waters remain unaffected. Millenia of gains and losses, rights and wrongs: this is just what what fisherman and woodcutter talk about, and that is all.

 
Music 25 (see transcription; timings below are for my recording 聽錄音 from 1559; see also Videos for Learning)
Six Sections, untitled
All melodies in Taiyin Xupu have preludes; the prelude used for Yu Qiao Wenda is Kaigu Yin, which has its own preface and is an abbreviated and slightly modified version of the Sigh for Antiquity (慨古 Kai Gu) published in 1425.

  1. 00.00
  2. 01.05
    01.25 (1579 & 1589 Section 3)
  3. 02.00 (harmonics)
  4. 02.31
  5. 03.06
    03.18 (1579 & 1589 Section 6)
  6. 03.39
    04.15 Harmonic coda
    04.40 End

The recording was made on 5 October 2013 using a guqin newly made by Tong Kin-Woon and silk strings by Marusan Hashimoto, newly strung (24 September 2013). Comments below compare the timing of this version with some timings of modern versions. (Open first string = B flat; replaces recording of 27 September 2013, which had open first string = G#.)

 
Footnotes (Shorthand references are explained on a separate page)

1. References for Yu Qiao Wenda (QQJC III/433)
18586.103 漁樵問答 says only that it is the name of an Essay, in one folio, by 邵雍 Shao Yong; 6/97 has only 漁樵.

  Further references to the theme of fishermen and woodcutters include:

18586.99 漁樵 fisherman and woodcutter. There are quotes from four poems:

  1. 王維桃源記 Wang Wei, Peach Spring Record: 平明閭巷掃花開，薄暮漁樵乘水入。 "At first light in the alleys they swept the flowers from their gates. At dusk fishermen and woodmen came in on the stream." (G.W. Robinson, in Wang Wei, Poems, Penguin, 1973; total [7+7] x 16).
  2. 杜荀鶴，茅山詩 Du Xunhe (846-907), Poem of Maoshan: 漁樵不道處，麋鹿自成群。
  3. 杜甫，閣夜詩 Du Fu, Night on a Watchtower: 野哭千家聞戰伐，夷歌幾處起漁樵。 (7+7) x 4; translation)
  4. 蘇軾，赤壁賦 Su Shi, Red Cliff Ballad: 況吾與子，漁樵于江渚之上。

18586.101 漁樵記 Record of a Fisherman and Woodcutter
A Yuan dynasty play discussed in LXS about the woodcutter Zhu Maichen and a fisherman named 王安道 Wang Andao.

None has a qin reference and I am not aware of it being in the Chinese opera repertoire today.
(Return)

2. Shang mode
For further information on shang mode see Shenpin Shang Yi and Modality in Early Ming Qin Tablature. The mode of this melody seems to change some time during the 17th century. There is further discussion of this in a footnote below.
(Return)

3. 漁樵問答圖 Dialogue Between a Fisherman and Woodcutter, by 謝時臣 Xie Shichen
Xie Shichen (1481 - ca. 1561; Wiki) was a well-known Ming dynasty landscape artist from Suzhou. The inscription on the present painting is a poem that says,

柳葉山前一浦通，不曾牧養辟西東；
催科不到漁樵地，贏得風光入畫中。
In front of Willow Leaf Mountain, a stream flows through,
      Never herding livestock, avoiding boundary disputes.
The tax collectors never reach the lands of fishermen and woodcutters,
      But their scenic beauty can be captured in paintings.

Many thanks to 孙小青 Sun Xiaoqing for identifying this painting and deciphering the inscription. The poem itself was presumably written by, or at least copied by, Xie himself. The image can also be found elsewhere on the internet, perhaps from it apparently having been auctioned from a private collection in 2005. There are more references and illustrations below.
(Return)

4. Tracing Yu Qiao Wenda
See Zha's Guide 24/203/398 and appendix below. Only four of the versions seem to have titles for individual sections: 1585, 1611 1625 and 1730.
(Return)

5. Earliest surviving qin versions with lyrics: 1585 and 1589
The 1585 lyrics are included in Appendix II below. Compare these with the lyrics of second earliest, dated 1589 and included in Appendix III; this latter version was recorded by Zha Fuxi

1585 Yu Qiao Wenda (lyrics below); IV/369
See page 1 of my transcription; the preface is as follows,

"漁樵問答，古操也。查遺譜有指訣無音文，考琴史有文音無指訣。今配定文音入譜，使善鼓者知其曲之古淡，韻調清高。喜漁樵，樂江山，友魚、蝦、麋鹿，對明月清風，物我兩忘。然微妙豈於貪徇嗜利輩能知乎？"
Yu Qiao Wenda is an old melody. Examining the tablatures bequeathed to us, they have had fingering but no words for the music; examining historical qin materials, they have had words that could go with sounds (from such sources as these, including this by Shao Yong?) but no accompanying fingering. Now sounds and words have been paired with tablature, so that those good at playing can know such tunes' ancient subtleties, and resonant melodies that are pure and elevated. (Thus can one) appreciate fishermen and woodcutters, enjoy rivers and mountains, make friends with fish, shrimp and deer, face the bright moon and clear winds, and forget self and the material world. Moreover, with regard to such subtle beauty, how could those with cravings for instant gratification be able to appreciate this?

The melody, meanwhile, is divided into 9 sections, with 3, 7 and 9 beginning with four doublestops then the rest in harmonics. Its lyrics form a dialogue (it begins, "The fisherman asked the woodcutter, 'What do you seek?' The woodcutter answered the fisherman, 'Oak beams and a thatched cottage....'". In general the melody uses material of earlier published versions, but in adding lyrics in the form of a dialogue the melody becomes much changed, especially towards the end. Specifically, 1585 Section 1 begins with music very much like that of the other early versions. Then the first part of Section 2 seems to use material from what is Section 2 in 1579 and in 1589. This is followed by a passage very similar to what in 1559 is the beginning of Section 2; in 1585 this begins on the lyrics "木能生火" (i.e., at the beginning of a statement by the woodcutter) in the middle of Section 2, then a melody like that of the "Woodcutter to Fisherman theme" accompanies lyrics from "因木求財" (the beginning of a statement by the fisherman) to the end of Section 2. The double stops at the end of Section 2 of the other versions now begin Section 3 of 1585, but they do so in a strange way. Sections 3, 7 and 9 all consist of the same four double stops followed by an extended passage in harmonics. Sections 7 and 9 apply the lyrics "漁乃喜曰" to the double stops, fitting them perfectly. However, Section 3 begins. "樵曰：「昔日"; in other words it seems to confuse the character 曰 (said) with 日 (day). Otherwise it seems to suggest that the lyrics and music were of independent origin and do not quite fit in some places. After Section 3 the 1585 version continues to use motifs from the other versions, but the actual music is very different.

1589 Yu Qiao Wenda (lyrics below; VII/92)
Listen to the recording by Zha Fuxi. The preface here is as follows,

按斯曲，想亦隱君子所作也。因見青山綠水，萬古常新，其間識山水之趣者，惟漁與樵。泥途軒冕，敞屣功名，划跡於深山窮谷，埋聲於巨浪洪濤。天子不能臣，諸侯不能友，是以金蘭同契，拉伴清談，數治亂，論興亡，千載得失是非，盡付於漁樵談笑之中矣。回視奔走紅塵，憂諂畏譏，嬰逆鱗，罹羅織，待罪於廷尉而觸藩兩難者，殆天淵耳。鼓是操者，尚思所以潔其身乎？
It seems as though this piece was also created by a recluse. Because of their awareness that green mountains and blue waters always remain eternally fresh, those who truly understand the pleasures of nature include only fishermen and the woodcutters. They cast aside the muddy path of rank and honor, disdain fame and success, withdraw into the deep mountains and remote valleys, and bury their voices amid the vast waves and mighty billows. The Son of Heaven cannot make them his subjects, nor can the feudal lords make them their friends. Thus, they form a sworn bond of brotherhood, engaging in pure conversation — discussing order and chaos, debating rise and fall — wherein all the gains and losses, rights and wrongs of a thousand years are entrusted to the laughter and dialogue of the fisherman and the woodcutter. Looking back at those who rush about in the dusty world, anxious in their flattery and fearful of criticism, offending the ruler’s wrath, ensnared in plots and schemes, awaiting punishment from the imperial courts and trapped in impossible dilemmas — it is truly like the difference between heaven and the abyss. For those who play this piece, should they not reflect on how to keep their own selves pure?

This version has the fisherman and woodcutter speaking in alternate sections but without the words "___ said"). In other ways, also, they are quite different from those of the first surviving version with lyrics, from 1585, though the music is related. In fact, the lyrics adapted to the various versions of Yu Qiao Wenda are often very different from each other, reinforcing the probability that the melody was indeed very popular at that time. Meanwhile, my comparison of the original tablature (linked above with the recording by Zha Fuxi) indicates that the latter uses a somewhat different pairing method from the common practice, which basically assigns one note to each right hand stroke and some left hand strokes but not to slides. In the 1589 version lyrics also seem to be attached to slides and perhaps not as much attention is placed on lining up the musical phrases with the song phrases. My conclusion on this is based on the way Zha Fuxi seems to have to add right hand strokes in certain places to make the two fit. (In this, to my ears, he does a brilliant job.)

There is further comment on all this in the tracing chart below.
(Return)

6. Age of the Yu Qiao Wenda melody
The variety within the tablature from the late 1500s suggest a piece that had been developing for some time: perhaps for some time no one wished to commit to paper something that had so many versions. Or perhaps the fact that some of the versions had lyrics might have also led to delays in writing it down, especially if sung versions or available texts did not fit the formula apparently required for qin songs.

In addition, if a melody was actively played, but not by a master whose disciples might have copied it down, this would likely lead to a variety of forms for that melody. Zha Fuxi's Guide, p. 24, says the melody is "明代嘉慶以前 Ming dynasty before the Jiaqing period (1522 - 67)"; it does not explain the reason for this conclusion about a piece first published in 1559, but one might assume it has to do with the logic that says that melodies in the oral tradition must have existed for some time before being written down. Tablature printed in many copies had a better chance of surviving than hand copied individual pieces or handbooks. And in addition to the known surviving handbooks, there would have also been hand-copied tablature for individual melodies and melody collections, copied out by/for players (not just students and teachers) in various regions. But there is no specific information on such tablature for Yu Qiao Wenda.

Regarding the basic form and/or structure of the presumed original melody, I have personally written out transcriptions of the first three surviving instrumental versions, published in 1559, 1579 and 1589 respectively. From this I am not able to conclude that the latter two grew out of the former, rather than from another version, or other versions, then in existence, or at least being played. See also comments in the next footnote and in the chart below, as well as in the analysis from QSCB, pp. 141-143, copied and translated below.
(Return)

7. Yu Qiao Wenda in Zixiadong Qinpu?
This 13th century compilation was handcopied and did not survive. The Yuwu Qinpu preface (1589) begins by saying, "紫霞洞考，唐人云.... According to Zixiadong (presumably Zixiadong Qinpu), someone in the Tang dynasty said...." It then quotes the 1559 preface verbatim. The instrumental 1589 version does not claim its music is from Zixiadong; since the music of 1589 is quite different from 1559 this leaves open the question of whether this comment suggests that the music of 1559 might have been copied from Zixiadong.
(Return)

8. Categories of occupations
There are several such categorizations including:

Note that the latter two of these four melodies also occur for the first time in the present handbook.
(Return)

9. Living in nature
Certain fishermen and woodcutters are particularly famous. Among fishermen the most famous are Zhong Ziqi and perhaps Zhu Maichen (see also the Woodcutter's Song). As for fishermen the most famous would include people like 呂尚 Lü Shang and 嚴子陵 Yan Ziling (see also the Fisherman's Song).
(Return)

10. Confucian vs. Daoist
Within the qin repertoire there does not seem to be a well-defined distinction between Confucian and Daoist styles. Perhaps Daoist melodies are more free and Confucian ones more regulated, but in this context this is certainly not something that can reliably help identify who is "speaking" in purely instrumental versions of this melody.

As for the woodcutter being more accepting of Confucian ideas, that might be true of the dialogue in the 1585 version, but the 1589 lyrics suggest that the only difference might be the differing paths the fisherman and woodcutter might use in order to escape to nature.
(Return)

11. 問答: "Question and answer"? Dialogues and couplets
Here I have found it interesting to compare musical depiction of this "dialogue" to my understanding of couplets as I find them in the early guqin repertoire (example from You Lan). There is more discussion of how this affects musical interpretation below.
(Return)

12. Early paintings on theme of Dialogue between the Fisherman and Woodcutter Painting by Zhong Li  
As yet I have found only a few specific references or examples of paintings said to date from before Yu Qiao Wenda was published ca. 1559. These include:

  2. 梁楷 Liang Kai (ca.1140 - ca.1210; Yu Qiao Xianhua)
  3. 謝時臣 Xie Shichen (1481 - ca. 1561; above)
  4. 鐘禮 Zhong Li (ca. 1500; Bio/1723; at right), in the 定勝寺 Josho Ji, 長野県 Nagano (view [image somewhat blurred: the figure on the shore is the woodcutter])

Also of potential interest is 吳偉，《漁樵琴酒圖 Wu Wei, Fisherman and Woodcutter with Qin and Wine, but I cannot now find it online. Some later images are discussed below but many more can be found through internet searches.
(Return)

14. Modern version vs. older versions of Yu Qiao Wenda
The timing of my present recording of the 1559 version is 04.40; timing of the previous recording was 04.21, but the melody could easily be played in under four minutes (perhaps suggesting that the conversation was rather agitated). Modern versions are all much longer.

The versions commonly played today seem to come either from the Yu Qiao Wenda in Qinxue Rumen (1864; Qin Fu/640-41) or the one in Qinxue Congshu (1910; Qin Fu/946-55). The latter seems to be an elaboration of the former; in particular, although both versions have 10 sections and in general are very similar, the 1910 tablature adds quite a bit in the latter part of Section 4, in the harmonics of Section 5, in the latter part of Section 9 and in the harmonics of Section 10. Both versions are available in recordings from the 1950s.

  1. The 1864 version is 5.22 in one recording by Xu Yuanbai, 7.53 in another: the only significant musical difference seems to be the speed at which it is played. The same melody, somewhat elaborated, is 7.01 in a recording by Wu Jinglue (7.12 according to the transcription in Guqin Quji, I, pp. 129-134);
  2. The 1910 version is 8.38 in a recording by Shen Caonong (10.25 according to the transcription of a performance by 楊葆元 Yang Baoyuan in Guqin Quji, II, pp. 98-105). In the recording by Sou Si-tai it is 10.19. Again the differences seem mostly to do with the speed at which the melody is played.

These two common modern versions both retain clear connections with the earliest surviving versions. This begins with the opening phrase, which is very similar; other connections are less obvious: e.g., examining the tablature one can see that Section 4 of both 1864 and 1910 begin with elaborations of the earlier fisherman and woodcutter theme, but if only listening to a recording this is harder to hear (in this regard it should be noted that the transcription in Guqin Quji, I, pp. 239-234, of Wu Jinglue's performance, though it is stated to be from Qinxue Rumen, is actually elaborated from it).

By contrast, the earliest versions have six sections and, according to my personal reconstruction, the earliest version (1559) should take about 4.20 to play. Later versions, in addition to elaborating on this base, began (perhaps with 1611) to add extensive passages in the upper register directly after the harmonics in the middle (usually Section 5). In all the earlier versions the sections after these harmonics have only a few notes played at 6.4 and 5.6; these are brief and it never goes higher.

In addition, although a version such as the one in Qinyuan Xinchuan Quanbian (1670; this handbook was particularly noted for copying earlier melodies from Shen Qi Mi Pu) has many characteristics of the earliest versions, after the harmonics it does have these extensive passages in the upper register. On the other hand, many of the versions from about 1600 until 1864 seem to be most closely connected to the 1585 and 1589 versions with lyrics (mostly the latter, in spite of the credit sometimes given to Yang Biaozheng, compiler of the former), even when they do not have lyrics. It should be noted that neither 1585 nore 1589 has extensive passages in the upper register.

It must be emphasized that these comparisons are very preliminary and this needs to be studied in greater detail, in particular by people with access to the full set of Qinqu Jicheng.
(Return)

15. Mode in Yu Qiao Wenda
As is common with Ming dynasty shang mode melodies, the main note in the early versions of Yu Qiao Wenda is 1 (do); secondary notes 2 and 5; many phrases are paired so that the first one ends on mi, the second one on do. The modern versions, though related, seem to have a somewhat different tonal sense. Already in the early versions 4 (fa) is more common than usual. Common contemporary understanding says that if a melody in standard tuning is played as 1 2 4 5 6 1 2, then the open third string must generally be avoided: could it be that a simple tendency to go ahead and play it anyway had led to the modal changes mentioned here? In the later versions of Yu Qiao Wenda the 4 becomes more important than 3. So in these later versions, to have the fewest number of notes outside the standard pentatonic scale 1 2 3 5 6 requires considering the open third string as do (i.e., the tuning becomes 5 6 1 2 3 5 6). In this case the main note is still the open first string but this has now become 5, with 2 as the secondary tonal center; all the 4s become 1 (later versions do retain some 3s, which now become flatted 7s, but they are less common than the new 1s). These note relationships now correspond most closely with the modality of old melodies in 徵調 zhi diao, though those early melodies all use the open first string as 1 (do).

An incomplete study of early tablature suggests that the new modal sense for Yu Qiao Wenda may survive earliest from the version published in 1670, where it is connected to 周東岡 Zhou Donggang (QQJC/XI, p.343). However, the melody remains grouped with shang mode melodies until 1836, where it is called 徵 zhi.

The change of modality seems somewhat different from the modal changes in the early Yushan School melody Qiujiang Yebo: the latter has the standard pentatonic scale (1 2 3 5 6), but in the earliest versions sometimes 3 is flatted; later the flatted 3s are replaced by 4s, but both non-pentatonic tones are dropped by 1673.

Another modal characteristic that should be mentioned is the flatted mi (3). Most shang mode melodies in Shen Qi Mi Pu (1425) have flatted 3s as well as non-flatted ones; these flatted 3s gradually or suddenly disappear from the versions published later. Yu Qiao Wenda has no flatted 3s to begin with. Perhaps it is also significant that the prelude in 1559 to Yu Qiao Wen Da, Kaigu Yin, has a flatted 3 in its 1425 version but in 1559 that note is changed to 2 (re).
(Return)

16. Fishermen and woodcutters as a motif in Chinese poetry
See Lundbaek (next footnote), p. 14; see also a footnote above.
(Return)

17. Shao Yong (1011–1077): Dialogue between a Fisherman and a Woodcutter (邵雍，漁樵問答 or 漁樵對問 or 漁樵問對)
See the original text in a separate file and a translation by Joseph A. Adler at kenyon.edu.

This essay, while attributed to Shao Yong, is also said to be an yiwen (佚文 532.3 = 逸文 39824.9), suggesting it was not included among his standard works, but rather available only in later texts attributed to him. The Wiki page on Shao Yong does not at present (2025) mention this essay. Note that while the essay there seems still to be translated as a "dialogue", the actual Chinese title may also be given as 問對 wendui rather than 問答 wenda, perhaps suggesting the actual situation here, where the fisherman answers questions put by the woodcutter (樵問漁對).
(Return)

18. Su Shi, Leisurely Conversation between a Fisherman and Woodcutter (蘇軾，漁樵閑話 Su Shi, Yu Qiao Xianhua)
The original, like Shao Yong's work, is said to be an 佚文 special essay: not included among his standard works. It has also been copied here in a a separate file (any translations?)
(Return)

19. Dialogue between a Fisherman and Woodcutter: Stories in Chinese opera
LXS has two entries with related titles. However, the first of these seems more focused on the conversation:

  1. Leisurely Conversation between a Fisherman and Woodcutter (漁樵閑話 Yu Qiao Xianhua, p. 130; see this separate file)
    The story involves the four occupations of 漁、樵、耕、牧 fisherman, woodcutter, ploughman and herdsman. (四___? Not 四業﹕士、農、工、商.; there are references to a 漁樵耕牧四詠 by 郭真順 Guo Zhenshun [1312 - 1436 ! ; Bio/2024; writer, wife of 周伯玉]).
  2. Record of a Fisherman and Woodutter (漁樵記 Yu Qiao Ji, p.93; see also 18586.101)
    Also called 風雪漁樵記; full title 朱太守風雪漁樵記; once called 王鼎臣風雪漁樵記. Story begins with the friendship of 朱買臣 Zhu Maichen with the woodcutter 楊孝先 Yang Xiaoxian and fisherman 王安道 Wang Andao. Early in the play they drink and talk on a snowy evening. They main story concerns Zhu's activities after this.

In these I have not found any references to qin.
(Return)

20. Journey to the West (西遊記 Xi You Ji)
See separate page. A number of websites have the complete Chinese original novel online. The version used here is from www.millionbook.net/gd/w/wuchengen/xyj/index.html, with the dialogue being Chapter 9.
(Return)

21. Fisherman and Woodcutter Dialogue: Images from art Depicted also in Korea and Japan    
At top is an older image, as are these. Here at right (expand) the left image is by Yi Myong-uk (see below); the right one is attributed to 松亭 Shotei (1912).

Here are some current online references:

22. Analysis of Yu Qiao Wenda in Qinshi Chubian, Chapter 7b (QSCB, pp. 141-143; listen to this recording by my original teacher and see my analysis)
In QSCB Xu Jian analyzes Yu Qiao Wenda under Ming dynasty melodies. It does not identify the source of the version it discusses, but it is clearly based on a performance by Wu Jinglue as transcribed in Guqin Quji Vol. 1, pp. 129-134. There the version is identified as from Qinxue Rumen (1864). It is very different from the Ming dynasty version, but Xu Jian would at that time not been familiar with the earlier versions.

The problem here occurs right at the beginning of the examples given by Xu Jian: what he identifies in his example 1 as the "main theme", introduced at the end of the first section, then repeated up a fifth in Section 2, then up an octave from the original pitch in Section 6, cannot be found the the earliest version recorded here. There are hints of it beginning with the second surviving version (1579; also in 1589), but this phrase is not developed until much later versions. The closest motif to this in Taiyin Xupu is the phrase first found (see my transcription, mm.56-71, 131-143 and 152-167)

漁樵問答
它和《平沙落雁》一樣，是近代很流行的曲目。刊傳者有三十五種，有的還附有歌詞。最早見於《杏莊太音續譜》，在解題中說：「古今興廢有若反掌，青山綠水則固無恙。千載得失是非，盡付之漁樵一話而已。」解題中表現出對世事變化無常的反感。明代的統治者對文人實行殘酷鎮壓，文人常常處於禍福無常的境地，於是認為漁樵的生活值得羨慕，把他們當作隱者的化身來加以歌頌，同時也隱含著對那些趨炎附勢之徒的鄙棄。
Like Ping Sha Luo Yan, Yu Qiao Wenda is today a widely popular qin piece. There are thirty-five known versions, some with lyrics. Its earliest surviving version is in Xingzhuang Taiyin Xupu, where the explanatory note states: "Throughout history success and failure can occur in the blink of an eye, but green mountains and clear waters remain unchanged. Millenia of gains and losses, rights and wrongs: this is just what what fisherman and woodcutter talk about, and that is all." This explanation conveys a sense of disillusionment with the ever-changing nature of worldly affairs. The Ming dynasty ruling authorities subjected intellectuals to harsh repression, often putting them into precarious positions where fortune and misfortune were unpredictable. As a result, they came to admire the lives of fishermen and woodcutters, viewing them as symbols of recluses and celebrating them in music. At the same time, this admiration carried an implicit disdain for those who sought favor by currying favor with power.

它和《漁歌》和《樵歌》表達的主題思想是一致的，在短小的樂曲中綜合了這兩曲的意思。 樂曲採用漁者和樵者對話的方式，在題材的選擇上更為集中和精煉。樂曲以上升的曲調表示問句，下降的曲調表示答句。曲調飄逸瀟灑，描繪出漁、樵在青山綠水之間，悠然自得的神態。樂曲中時而出現伐木聲或搖櫓聲，作為這種意境的襯托。正如《琴學初津》中所說：「《漁樵問答》曲意深長，神情灑脫，而山之巍巍，水之洋洋，斧伐之丁丁，櫓聲之欸乃，隱隱現於指下。迨至問答之段，令人有山林之想。」
Song of the Fisherman and Song of the Woodcutter as well as this piece all convey the same message. The melody represents a dialogue between a fisherman and a woodcutter expounding on this theme in a refined and concentrated manner. The composition uses ascending melodies to indicate questions and descending melodies to indicate answers. The melody is graceful and free-spirited, portraying the fisherman and woodcutter in an idyllic setting of green mountains and clear waters, living with a sense of ease and contentment. The music occasionally features sounds reminiscent of axe chopping wood or oars rowing, reinforcing this picturesque atmosphere. As described in 琴學初津Qinxue Chujin (1894): 'Yu Qiao Wen Da carries profound meaning and an unrestrained spirit. The grandeur of the mountains, the vastness of the waters, the rhythmic chopping of wood, and the oar strokes cutting through the waves all emerge subtly through the player's fingers. As for the dialogue parts, these evoke thoughts of life in the mountains and forests."  

全曲共十段。它那「神情灑脫」的主題音調曾多再現，每次都有發展變化，並在第七段中形成高潮。
The entire piece consists of ten sections. Its "free-spirited and elegant" main theme recurs multiple times, each with new developments and variations, reaching a climax in its seventh section.

首次在第一段末尾呈現時，主題音調是這樣的：
The first appearance of the main theme occurs at the end of the first section:

（五線譜：略）
(Staff notation omitted; see end of Section 1: GQQJ-1, p.129, end of line 5; this is one of the melody's most characteristic phrases but I am not sure this should be considered the "主題音調 main theme").

到第二段再度出現時，音調提高了五度，形成如下曲調：
In the second section this melody reappears but raised by a perfect fifth, as follows:

（五線譜：略）
(Staff notation omitted; see near beginning of Section2: GQQJ-1, p.129, end of last line to p.130 first note of line 2）

到第六段提高八度成為：
By the sixth section this passage is raised by an octave (above the original occurrence), further intensifying the development:

（五線譜：略）
(Staff notation omitted; see second line of Section 6: GQQJ-1, p.132, lines 3 and 4）

第八段繼第七段高潮之後，把以前「隱隱現於指下」的伐木聲和搖櫓聲組織在一起， 先用撥刺的雙聲重音奏出，繼而以散、按、帶起的輕聲反復，造成歡樂的氣氛， 謳歌了他們自食其力的勞動生活。下面是輕聲反復時的曲調：
After the climax in the seventh section (including double stops in last two lines), the eighth section integrates the previously subtle wood-chopping and oar-rowing sounds into more structured musical passages. Initially (see second to fourth lines), double stops with plucking techniques simulate these sounds, followed by light, repeating phrases using open-string, stopped, and left-hand-plucked tones, creating a joyful atmosphere that praises the self-sufficient labor of the fisherman and woodcutter. After this the melody (ends with) This is how the melody develops in the repeated light tones:

（五線譜：略）
(Staff notation omitted; see third line from end of Section 8; GQQJ-1, p.134, line 4)

此曲除主要運用以上兩類曲調之外，還以泛音曲調用在第五和第十兩段。 這兩段泛音曲調前後相互呼應，前者穿插使用，後者曲終再現，使人感到餘音繚繞，大可回味，增強了飄逸灑脫的神彩。其曲調是：
Aside from the two primary melodic styles, harmonics are used in the fifth and tenth sections. These two sections mirror each other, with the harmonics appearing interspersed in the fifth section and fully developed in the final section. This concluding use of harmonics gives the piece a lingering resonance, leaving a sense of ethereal elegance and boundless reverie. The melody of these harmonic sections is as follows:

（五線譜：略）
(Staff notation omitted; see closing harmonics; GQQJ-1, p.134, last line）

終 end

My own analysis, based on my reconstruction of the earliest surviving version, also finds a phrase that appears three times in the melody. To me it seems not so much like what Xu Jian calls the "main theme" and more like a sort of refrain. In the 19th century version analyzed by Xu Jian, characteristic phrases from that theme appear throughout the melody. This does not seem to be the case with elements of the theme (or refrain) in the early versionm, though there certainly are motifs that recur. Xu Jian says that the melody has "上升的曲調 rising melodies" to indicate questions and "降的曲調 falling melodies" to indicate answers. According to my analysis, which largely comes from looking for passages that will help me bring structure into my reconstruction of the melody from the old tablature, suggest that this "question" and "answer" structure is in theory very much related to what I have described as "couplets". Unfortunately Xu Jian does not give examples so I cannot be sure of this. Examples of what I mean by couplets can easily be described from the very beginning of the piece, where the melody seems to begin with these couplets (see my transcription):

  1. The phrase mm.1-4 ending on la is answered by the phrase in mm.5-8 ending on mi.
  2. The phrase mm.9-12 ending on do-re is answered by the phrase in mm.13-16 ending on re.
  3. The phrase mm.17-20 ending on sol has two answers: the phrase in mm.21-24 ending on sol then mm.5-29 ending on sol.

The melody goes on like this with often longer questions and answers but also statements that might be interpreted as agreements (nothing to indicate much in the way of strong diagreements.)

It seems unlikely that a question and answer analysis such as this could be applied to the versions with lyrics: there the fisherman or woodcutter speaks for an entire section. In my analysis the couplets will occur within each section. Whole sections do not appear in one register followed by another whole section in a higher or lower register.
(Return)

23. At the Golden Gates awaiting an Imperial Audience (金門待漏 Jinmen Dailou)
Beginning with Guyin Zhengzong (1634) Yu Qiao Wenda is sometimes (also) called Jinmen Dailou. 41049.xxx; 待漏 10318.48 waiting area; the place may be called the 待漏院 Dailou Yuan and there is a Description of this called "待漏院記 Dailou Yuan Ji". Dailou literally means "awaiting the drip" and this referred literally to officials gathering at the "golden gates", i.e., the gates to the imperial palace, while they waited for for the official water clock to drip down to where it indicated it was time for their imperial audience. Assuming the officials are looking forward to their word, this theme is quite the opposite to that of a debate over the value of government service. Could it be an ironic suggestion that people at the Jinmen Dailou Yuan would actually be elsewhere?

There is no information to suggest any melodies called either "Yu Qiao Wenda or Jinmen Dailou" were ever played in court.

There is also a melodically unrelated Jinmen Dailou published in 1876. It has no commentary other than a note under the first section that says, "琴史亦唐狄梁公所作 Created by Duke Di of Liang during the Tang dynasty."
(Return)

24. Original 1559 preface
The original preface (QQJC III/433) is (translation):

杏莊老人曰：唐人云，
      「漢家事業空流水，魏國山河半夕陽」。
古今興廢有若反掌，青山綠水則固無恙，千載得失是非，盡付之漁樵一話而已。

The couplet at the beginning seems clearly to refer to the second line of a poem by 李益 Li Yi (748-827; ICTCL; Wiki) called "同崔邠登鸛雀樓 With Cui Bin climbing Stork Pavilion", as follows:

鸛雀樓西百尺牆，汀洲雲樹共茫茫。 West of Stork Pavilion is a 100 foot wall; sandbanks, clouds and trees are boundless.
漢家簫鼔空流水，魏國山河半夕陽。 Han palace flutes and drums are as nothing compared to flowing streams; Wei mountain streams have just half run their course.
事去千年猶恨速，愁來一日即為長。 Affairs 1000 years past seem to have gone quickly; yet if sadness comes for one day it seems long.
風煙並是思歸望，遠目非春亦自傷。 Wind and smoke: it is like longing to return; gazing in the distance it is not springtime and this brings grief.

Cui Bin (崔邠，字處仁，貝州武城人) was another Tang poet. Stork Pavilion is 48475.9 鸛雀臺 Guanque Lou, on the north side of Xi'an. "汀洲 Dingzhou" in the poem seems to mean "sand bank" (17488.8 水中沙土積成之小平地也; compare 汀州 Dingzhou, in Fujian). 漢家 18531.150. In ancient times the 魏國 State of Wei had extended east of Xi'an, i.e., not in the direction of the setting sun; however, 5875.57 says 夕陽 can refer to the west side of a mountain or the end of life. (半夕陽 2752.xxx.)

Further regarding the second line of this poem 孙小青 Sun Xiaoqing suggests that "漢家簫鼔 The Han court's piping and drumming" might have been an allusion to 夕阳簫鼔 Xiyang Xiaogu, well-known pipa music. He says the change to "漢家事業 The Han court's undertakings" conforms to the style of the poem.
(Return)

25. Music of 1559 version
My teacher Sun Yü-ch'in originally taught me the standard 19th century version of Yu Qiao Wenda. Since leaving Taiwan my focus has been learning the earliest versions of any particular melody. For a long time I was not able to reconstruct this earliest known version to my satisfaction. Two issues causing me problems were:

  1. Uncertainty: I had not worked on other pieces from this handbook, and so wondered whether this tablature accurately described the melody as played by someone: each of the other early versions had some appealing motifs that seem to have contributed eventually to the modern version, but also seem to be missing something for their lack of other motifs. I thought perhaps in this case I would eventually do a version that combined music from several early handbooks, but as yet I have never done this with any of the early melodies I have reconstructed.
  2. Textual issues: possible mistakes in the 1559 tablature. The first of these somes at the end of the third phrase of Section 1, which ends on a 7th diad (c over D): no other version has a diad here, some ending the phrase on c, others on d (my solution is to play the dissonance but then slide from the c to d, making an octave). Then the first two phrases of Section 4 have a left thumb "cover" (罨 yan) on the 6th string followed by a left thumb pluck (對起 duiqi) written with the number 7 underneath it: i.e, played on the 7th string, suggesting something is missing; since writing the string number under duiqi is not idiomatic, I have moved it to before the duiqi and added a pluck. Other than these two problems there are two of three places where something is not written clearly on available copies, but the intended figures are easily determined. More important, quite a few of the phrasing indications seem to be missing: structures needed to be found that would reveal this phrasing.

The textual issues are in fact quite minor, and in late 2011, while adding commentary and art references (in particular the image at top), I focused again on the 1559 tablature and this time found I was able to come up with an interpretation based solely on the 1559 version that to me made it into a complete and logical whole that did not need additions from other versions (although that could also be interesting). By the time I made a recording this earliest known version had become one of my favorite melodies.
(Return)

Return to the annotated handbook list or to the Guqin ToC.

 
Appendix I: Chart Tracing Yu Qiao Wenda 漁樵問答;
based mainly on Zha Fuxi's Guide, 24/203/398.

      琴譜
    (year; Vol/page)		 Further information
(QQJC = 琴曲集成 Qinqu Jicheng; QF = 琴府 Qin Fu)
 1. 太音續譜
      (1559; III/441)		 6 sections; transcription and recording; preface (plus prelude with its own Preface); shang mode (1245612); sections 1-3 have some similarity to 1-5 of modern 10-section versions; opening of 4th hints at modern's 6th; 2nd section has "fisherman to woodcutter" theme ("F-W" theme), with first half repeated in 5th and 6th (compare 1579 and 1589); 3rd and end of 6th are in harmonics.
 2. 五音琴譜
      (1579; IV/221)		 6 sections; no commentary; this transcription (tentative) shows it to be quite different from 1559, but sections 1-4 are recognizably similar to 1-5 of modern version; 5th section starts like modern's 6th, but in 1579 (and 1589) the 6th repeats the "F-W" theme from 3rd, then closes with harmonics
 3. 重修真傳琴譜
      (1585; IV/369)		 9 sections, titled; ,transcription, page 1 (tentative); Sections 3, 7 & 9 have four doublestops then harmonics; 商 shang mode; melody uses material of earlier published versions, but in adding lyrics in the form of a dialogue the structure is much changed (details); not in 1573. See also the 1585 preface; not in 1573.
 4. 玉梧琴譜
      (1589; VI/32)		 Lyrics; 6 sections; this transcription (tentative) shows that its music is more like 1579 than 1559, but its preface (after saying "according to Zixiadong", presumably referring to Zixiadong Qinpu) quotes the 1559 preface verbatim. 3rd section bracketed by "漁 (fisherman)...樵 (woodcutter)": this is the F-W theme); 6th is then "漁至樵 fisherman to woodcutter"
 5. 真傳正宗琴譜
      (1589; VII/92)		 L; 8; Original tablature from 楊倫太古遺音 Yang Lun Taigu Yiyin as reprinted in 1609; 商音 shang yin; 8 sections, titled simply by who speaks (contrast 1585): 1. 漁樵問敘; 2. 漁; 3. 樵; 4. 漁 (泛音 harm.); 5. 樵; 6. 漁; 7. 樵; 8. 漁樵並樂符（ends with 泛音 harm.). New lyrics (like 1625, 1709 and 1730). The preface begins, "按斯曲，想亦隱君子所作也....It seems as though this piece was also created by a recluse...." Reconstructed by Zha Fuxi; compare his recording with the original tablature.
 6. 琴書大全
      (1590; V/478)		 6 sections; similar to 1589, though sectioning is different
 
 7. 文會堂琴譜
      (1596; VI/217)		 6 sections; similar to earlier versions
 
 8. 藏春塢琴譜
      (1602; VI/343)		 6 sections; same preface and music as 1589
 
 9. 陽春堂琴譜
      (1611; VII/460)		 L; 8 sections (3 and 8 in harmonics), titled; lyrics ("問今古幾經蕉鹿....", again different from previous)
In 太古正音 Taigu Zhengyin  
10. 理性元雅
      (1618; VIII/242)		 L; 12 sections; lyrics are new
 
11. 太音希聲
      (1625; IX/164)		 L; 8 sections, titled; lyrics (both are completely different from 1585, but related to 1589, 1709 etc.);
Sections 2-7 alternate between fisherman and woodcutter (also as in 1589, 1709, etc.)
12. 樂仙琴譜
      (1623; VIII/376)		 8 sections and new preface, but music is like older versions: compare Secs. 1-3 to 1559 Sec. 1;
Section 4 has F-W theme; 5th and 8th sections are harmonics
13. 古音正宗
      (1634; IX/295)		 6 sections; 4 and end of 6 are harmonics; Section 3 has modified F-W theme; "also called 金門待漏 Jinmen Dailou"
14. 義軒琴經
      (late Ming; IX/427)		 5 sections; 3 and end of 5 in harmonics; Section 2 has F-W theme
 
15. 陶氏琴譜
      (late Ming; IX/465)		 L; 9 sections (unnumbered); lyrics as 1589
 
16. 徽言秘旨
      (1647; X/85)		 Called 漁樵 Yu Qiao; 8 sections;
Guide says lyrics as 1589 but I cannot find them
17. 徽言秘旨訂
      (1692; fac.)		 Same as 1647?
 
18. 琴苑新傳全編
      (1670; XI/351)		 9 sections, 5 & 9 harmonics; F-W theme in 4 and 8; further comment. Still "商 shang", but see mode: more fas; latter half has extended passages above 7th position: compare modern version? Preface says, "是曲周東岡譜，蓋述隱者隨遇自樂之意，其聲優裕平順，出落自然，得隱逸之風調。 This melody uses the tablature of Zhou Donggang to convey the idea of recluses finding contentment in whatever circumstances they encounter. Its melodies are rich and smooth, unfolding naturally, embodying the style and spirit of hermitic life.
19a. 一峰園琴譜
      (1709; XIII/502)		 L; called 漁樵意 Yu Qiao Yi but related to above; its lyrics, only here, begin "執長斤，劈破崐崙....";
3 sections, unnumbered; mode not stated; attrib. 毛仲翁
19b. 一峰園琴譜
      (1709; XIII/508)		 L; called 漁樵話 Yu Qiao Hua but music and lyrics as 1611;
6 sections, unnumbered and diff. from 1611; mode not stated
20. 東皋琴譜 (Japan)
      (1709; see XII/276)		 L; 8 sections, 2-7 alternating between fisherman and woodcutter; lyrics as 1589, music also seems same; "商 shang"; 1898 edition: copy of? 1709
21. 立雪齋琴譜
      (1730; XVIII/21)		 L; 8 sections; "商 shang"; lyrics as 1589
Facsimile edition, Folio 1, p.24
22. 琴書千古
      (1738; XV/372)		 8 sections
L; 楊表正 Yang Biaozheng version; lyrics as 1585
23. 琴劍合譜
      (1749; XVIII/316)		 8 sections; "商音 shang yin"
 
24. 穎陽琴譜
      (1751; XVI/81)		 8 sections; 商音 shang yin; no lyrics, but 2-7 alternate between "fisherman" and "woodcutter";
same commentary as 1589; music very simlar but not identical; it counts phrases and 點 dian (strokes)
25. 蘭田館琴譜
      (1755; XVI/--)		 L; Guide says 8 sections; "商意 shang yi"; new lyrics, beginning "問坤古往今來，任桑田滄海悠悠...."
(missing from QQJC edition)
26. 裛露軒琴譜
      (>1802; XIX/251)		 8 sections, titled; 商音 shang yin
"太古遺音 Taigu Yiyin": same as 1589 but without lyrics?
27. 琴譜諧聲
      (1820; XX/201)		 8 sections
 
28. 琴學軔端
      (1828; XX/467)		 L; 8 sections; lyrics: almost same as 1585
"楊表正作 by Yang Biaozheng"
29. 悟雪山房琴譜
      (1836; XXII/325)		 8 sections; "中呂均徵音 zhonglüjun; zhi yin": first to say "zhi"?
"古岡遺譜 Gugang Yipu" (not 東岡)
30. 琴學入門
      (1864; XXIV/344)		 10 sections; "中呂均徵音 zhonglüjun; zhi yin"; gongche notation added (also p.354). There are modern recordings based on this version, which is the one I learned from Sun Yü-Ch'in. With 1st string as do: many fa; if third string = do: main note sol (see mode and compare early versions)
31. 琴瑟合譜
      (1870; XXVI/152)		 7 sections
 
32. 以六正五之齋
      XXVI/238 (1875)		 8; 宮調 gongdiao
 
33. 天聞閣琴譜
      (1876; XXV/374 & 423)		 Two versions, both 徵 zhi; #1 (Folio 7, 8 sections) no commentary but in margin has "空山彈 as played by (Zhang) Kongshan"
#2 (Folio 8, 10 sections) has afterword saying "周東岡譜 Zhou Donggang tablature", but in margin has "松仙 Songxian"
34. 希韶閣琴譜
      (1878; XXVI/355 and XXVI/355)		 Two: XXVI/335: 金門待漏 Jinmen Dailou (ToC has 金門待詔 Jinmen Daizhao): 商音 shang yin, 9 Sections; see 1634
L; XXVI/446; 8 sections with lyrics almost same as 1589 (but 徵音 zhi yin!).
35. 雙琴書屋琴譜集成
      (1884; XXVII/295)		 Two? Has one in 8+1 sections; 徵音 zhiyin;
XXVII/287: 金門待漏 Jinmen Dailou; 6+1 sections
36. 綠綺清韻
      (1884; XXVII/399)		 10+1; 商音 shangyin; afterword same as 1670
 
37. 枯木禪琴譜
      (1893; XXVIII/101)		 9+1; 宮音 gongyin; quite similar to 1864 (most differences in 4, 8, 9 and coda);
preface attributes melody to 楊表正 Yang Biaozheng (1585), but no lyrics
38. 琴學初津
      (1894; XXVIII/265)		 8+1; 徵音 zhiyin; "又名山水清音 also called Shanshui Qingyin"
Zha (190[232]): almost same as 1864; afterword here says, 「曲意深長，神情灑脫，而山之巍巍，水之洋洋，斧伐之丁丁，櫓聲之欸乃，隱隱現於指下，迨至問答之段，令人有山林之想，奏斯者，必修其指，而静其神，始得。志在漁樵者，此消遣，移情非淺，是曲，傳自何君桂笙，古越之高人，文章蓋世，無學不通，而著述之富，足冠古今，暇更以琴書自樂，綽有安道之風，愧余才疏藝劣，何幸屢荷青眼，教我良多，而奏斯曲者，不亦感君之惠授乎？按楊表正所作遇仙吟，漁樵問答等曲，作正文對音捷要譜，而是曲雖近時趨，然其用意，實深景仰，摹寫漁樵，形容畢露，足為製曲師法。德松客識。」 (See also next.)
39. 琴學叢書
      (1910; XXX/212)		 10; 宮調徵音 gong diao, zhi yin; has gongche
"抄本 hand copy"; modern recordings based on this version show it to be an elaboration of 1864. The recording by Sou Si-tai has a translation of what it says is the preface in 1910, but I cannot find that preface. It seems very similar to the beginning of preface in 1894 (The translation is, "This is a profound melody which is nonetheless unconstrained and of open expression. It evokes high mountains and flowing rivers. He who listens carefully may even perceive in the play of the musician the stroke of the axe and the rustling of the paddle; but it is mainly the sequences where fisherman and woodcutter converse with each other that inspire the listener with a feeling of profound nostalgia for this idyllic lifestyle.")
40. 山西育才館雅樂講義
      (1922)		 Lyrics almost same as 1589
 
41. 夏一峰傳譜
      (1957)		 p.27 (TKW/2081)
Largely follows 1864
42. 研易習琴齋琴譜
      (1961)		 Folio 2, #5
 
43. 愔愔室琴譜
      (2000)		 page 173
Largely follows 1910
44. 虞山吳氏琴譜
      (2001)		 page 24
 

 
Appendix II: Lyrics for Yu Qiao Wenda 漁樵問答;
As paired to the music in 重修真傳琴譜 Chongxiu Zhenchuan Qinpu
(1585; IV/369; earliest with lyrics)

1. 一嘯青峰 Whistling from the Green Peaks

漁問樵曰： 「子何求？」
The fisherman asked the woodcutter, "What do you seek (in life)?"

樵答漁曰： 「數椽茅屋，綠樹青山。時出時還，生涯不在西方；斧斤丁丁，雲中之巒。」
The woodcutter answered the fisherman, "Beams for a thatched cottage; green trees and blue mountains; coming and going as I please; a livelihood that will not send me westward (to the western frontier?); axes chopping rhythmically; mountains shrouded by clouds.

2. 培植春意 Nurturing the Spirit of Spring

漁又詰之曰： 「草木逢春，生意不然不可遏；代之為薪，生長莫達！」
The fisherman pressed him further, "When plants and trees reach spring, their vitality is unlimited. Yet, if cut down for firewood, their growth is stifled!"

樵又答之曰： 「木能生火，火能熟物，火与木，天下古今誰沒？況山木之為性也當生當牿；伐之而后更夭喬，取之而後枝葉愈芝。」
The woodcutter replied, "Wood gives rise to fire, and fire cooks food. Who, in all of history, has done without fire and wood? Moreover, the nature of mountain trees is to grow and be felled. Cutting them leads to even lusher growth; harvesting them results in stronger branches and leaves."

漁乃笑曰：     「因木求財，心多嗜欲；因財發身，心必恒辱。」
The fisherman laughed and said, "Seeking wealth through wood leads to endless desires; pursuing riches brings disgrace upon the heart."

3. 上友古人 Aspiring to the Sages of the Past

樵曰：「昔日朱買臣未遇富貴時，攜書挾卷。登山落徑行讀之。一旦高車駟馬驅馳，趨芻蕘脫跡，于子豈有不知？
            我今執柯以伐柯，雲龍風虎，終有會期；雲龍風虎，終有會期。」
The woodcutter said, "In the past, Zhu Maichen, before he attained wealth and rank, carried books and scrolls, reading as he walked the mountain paths. One day, when he rode in a grand carriage drawn by four horses, he left behind the life of woodcutting — surely you know this? I now wield an axe to fell trees, yet clouds and dragons, winds and tigers, will eventually meet their destined time; clouds and dragons, winds and tigers, will eventually meet their destined time."

4. 自得江山 Finding Contentment in Rivers and Mountains

樵曰：             「子亦何為？」
The woodcutter asked, "What about you?"

漁顧而答曰： 「一竿一釣一扁舟；五湖四海，任我自在遨游；得魚貫柳而歸，樂觥籌。」
The fisherman looked back and answered, "A single fishing rod, a single boat. I freely roam the five lakes and four seas, returning home with fish strung through a willow branch, enjoying wine cups and camaraderie."

5. 体蓄魚蝦 Understanding the Nature of Fish and Shrimp

樵曰：     「人在世，行樂好太平。魚在水，揚鬐鼓髡受不警；子垂陸具，過用許機心，傷生害命何深！」
The woodcutter said, "For people in the world, seeking pleasure is good, and peace is even better. Fish in the water raise their fins and swim carefree, unaware of danger. Yet you cast your fishing line with cunning and schemes—how deeply you harm life!"

漁又曰： 「不專取利拋綸餌，惟愛江山風景清。」
The fisherman replied, "I do not fish solely for profit, but rather for the pure love of rivers and mountains, and their serene beauty."

6. 戒守仁心 Guarding a Heart of Benevolence

樵曰： 「志不在漁垂直釣？心無貪利坐家吟。子今正是岩邊獺，何道忘私弄月明？」
The woodcutter said, "Is your intent truly not in fishing? Casting a straight line without greed? Right now, you are like an otter by the rocky shore—how can you claim to have abandoned self-interest as you play beneath the bright moon?"

7. 尚論公卿 Discussing Nobles and Officials

漁乃喜曰： 「呂望當年渭水濱，絲綸半卷海霞清。有朝得遇文王日，載上安車齎闕京；嘉言儻論為時法，大展鷹揚敦太平。」
The fisherman happily said, "In the past, Lü Wang (Lü Shang) fished by the Wei River, with his fishing line half-rolled up as the sea mists cleared. One day, when he met King Wen, he was carried in a grand carriage to the capital. If wise words are spoken and used as law for the times, a great peace can be achieved like a soaring eagle."

8. 溪山一趣 Streams and Mountains Together are Enticing

樵擊擔而對曰： 「子在江兮我在山，計來兩物一般般；息肩罷釣相逢話，莫把江山比等閑。
                                 我是子非休再辯，我非子是莫虛談；不如得個紅鱗鯉，灼火新蒸共笑顏」。
The woodcutter, striking his carrying pole, responded, "You are on the river, and I am in the mountains—both are much the same. Resting my shoulders and ceasing to fish, we meet and talk; do not take these rivers and mountains lightly. I am not you, and you are not me—no need for further debate. Instead, let us catch a red-scaled carp, steam it over a fresh fire, and share a smile together."

9. 适意全生 Living Freely and Fully

漁乃喜曰： 「不惟萃老溪山；還期异日得志見龍顏，投卻云峰煙水業，大旱施霖雨，巨川行舟楫，衣錦而還；嘆人生能有幾個何。」
The fisherman happily said, "Not only do I wish to spend my later years in these rivers and mountains, but I also hope that one day, should fortune favor me, I might meet the emperor. Casting aside my life amidst misty peaks and flowing waters, I could bring rain in times of drought, guide ships across great rivers, and return home in fine silks. Alas, how many times can one truly live such a life?"

 
Appendix III: Lyrics for Yu Qiao Wenda 漁樵問答;
From 真傳正宗琴譜 Zhenchuan Zhengzong Qinpu (1589; QQJC VII/92; second)
Copied in 1625? See chart, compare earliest and listen to a recording.

1.（漁樵同敘 Fisherman and Woodcutter Share an Introduction)
       清隱高譂 Pure Seclusion and Lofty Discourse (Fisherman sets the scene)

靠舟崖，整頓絲釣，入山濯足溪流。駕一葉扁舟，往來江湖裏行樂，笑傲也王侯。但見白雲坡下，又見綠水灘頭。相呼相喚，論心商榷也不相尤。寵寵寵辱無關，做個雲外之叟。
Leaning against the riverbank, adjusting my fishing line, I enter the mountains to wash my feet in the stream. Sailing a small skiff, I roam freely across lakes and rivers, laughing at the power of lords and nobles. One moment, I see the white clouds below the slopes, the next, I gaze at the green waters along the shore. Calling out to one another, conversing sincerely, we hold no grievances. Honor and disgrace have no hold on us; we are but old men beyond the clouds.

2. （漁）垂論秋渚 (Fisherman) Discussing the Autumn Shoals While Fishing"
長江浩蕩，舉棹趁西風，篛笠簑衣，每向水深際侶漁蝦，湖南湖北是生涯。 只見白蘋紅蓼，滿目秋容也交加。放情物外兮堪誇，櫓聲搖軋那咿啞，出沒煙霞。
The Yangtze River flows vast and mighty, I lift my oar and ride the western wind. Wearing a bamboo hat and a coarse raincoat, I often fish in deep waters. My livelihood spans Hunan and Hubei, with white water caltrops and red smartweed filling my view, autumn’s colors mingling together. Releasing myself beyond worldly concerns is truly admirable. The oars creak and grind, their sound mixing with the rising mist and morning glow.

3. （樵）山居雅趣 (Woodcutter) Refined Pleasures of Mountain Living
飲泉息石在山中，此江山不換與三公。只見矗崎嶇猶有路通，野客並那山翁，竹徑更有鬆風。遁世逍遙，茫然不知南北與那西東。山無歷，寒到便知冬。山寺遠，回不聞鐘聲。仰觀那懸崖峭壁，峻坂高峰，飛泉瀑布，隨意縱橫。逃名天地外也，有甚麼那愁容。大嘯一聲，山谷皆鳴。無掛礙，別紅塵，卻疑身在五云中。
Drinking from mountain springs, resting on stones, I dwell within the hills. I would not trade this landscape for the rank of a grand minister. Even where the cliffs are steep, paths still wind through; rustic wanderers and mountain elders walk together. Bamboo paths whisper with the sound of pine winds. I roam freely beyond the world, unaware of north or south, east or west. Mountains have no calendars—only when the cold arrives do I know it is winter. The temple is distant; turning back, I can no longer hear its bells. Looking up, I see towering cliffs and sheer peaks, Steep slopes and lofty summits, waterfalls tumbling freely in all directions. I have fled the world’s fame and burdens—what sorrow could weigh on me? Letting out a great cry, the valleys echo back. With no attachments, I leave behind the dust of the mortal world, And it feels as if I am drifting in the clouds of the immortal realms.

4. （漁）獲魚縱樂 (Fisherman) Catching Fish and Indulging in Joy
得魚時將來細剖，需此斗酒，乘月泛滄浪，盡醉而休。高歌那一曲，信口胡謅。無腔笛，雅韻悠悠。撇卻許多閒愁，又何憂。
When I catch a fish, I carefully clean and prepare it, With a jug of wine beside me, I drift under the moon on the vast blue waves, drinking until content. I sing a tune, making up the words as I go. My flute has no set melody, yet its refined notes flow endlessly. Casting aside all idle worries, what else is there to fear?

5. （樵）危岡禁足 (Woodcutter) 危岡禁足 Avoiding Dangerous Ridges
看他步入雲窩，過些羊腸鳥道，聞些猿啼鶴唳，恍似王質也爛柯。雪深泥滑兮，怎奈如何。 險危坡，要斟酌，不如輕輕束擔免蹉跎。
I watch as one walks into the clouds, Crossing winding, treacherous mountain paths. Hearing the cries of monkeys and cranes, It feels like the tale of Wang Zhi, who forgot time as he watched wood decay. The snow is deep, the mud is slick—how can one continue? The slopes are perilous, caution is needed; It is best to walk lightly and secure one's pack to avoid slipping.

6. （漁）驚濤罷釣 (Fisherman) Ceasing to Fish Amidst Raging Waves
三江五湖，任我遨遊。有時下絲綸，獨鉤寒江，方涉江浦也，卻又行到那巴丘。 淺水汀洲，懶見那鷸蚌相持，向午也就歸舟。誠恐風波突起處，灘瀨漲惡，要休時，急忙怎得休。
Across the three rivers and five lakes, I wander as I please. At times, I cast my line into the cold river, fishing alone. Yet, just as I reach the riverbank, I find myself drifting toward Mount Ba. In the shallow waters by the sandbanks, I lazily watch a sandpiper and clam locked in a struggle. By midday, I return to my boat. But I fear the sudden rise of storms, As torrents rage and sandbanks flood. When the time comes to stop, how can I halt my course in haste?

7. （樵）浮雲當貴 (Woodcutter) Honoring the Floating Clouds
山林居士，原不愛去趨朝。煙霞老叟，清操絕欲轉高。披粗衣，食淡飯也，草舍團瓢。 閒談今古，何羨重茵鼎食，懸佩紫授，並那戴著金貂，月白風清，受用不了。
A hermit of the mountains, I have no love for courtly affairs. An old man amidst mist and clouds, my pure spirit grows ever higher. I wear rough clothes, eat simple meals, and drink from a wooden ladle in my thatched hut. Chatting idly about past and present, Why would I envy those with soft cushions and grand feasts, Or the officials adorned with purple robes and gold-tipped caps? Beneath the moon and cool breezes, I already have all I could ever need.

8. （客漁樵並樂）鳴和彌清 (A visitor (observes that) the fisherman and woodcutter are together in harmony) The Harmonious Melody Rings Ever Pure
漁翁樵子也，俱是嚴陵、呂望輩，振起乎那高標。樂山樂水樂陶陶， （泛音）看漁樵樂意多饒。幕天席地風騷，戴月推敲。
The fisherman and the woodcutter— Are they not like the great hermits Yan Ling and Lü Wang? They uphold the highest ideals, Finding joy in mountains and rivers, rejoicing in their carefree existence.

(Melody played in harmonics)
See how their happiness overflows! The sky as their canopy, the earth as their mat, Composing poetry by moonlight, pushing the boundaries of refined verse.

 
Return to top